Creative Counterpart

"That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, to be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed." Titus 2:4-5

Archive for the ‘Calvinist’ Category

Does the Bible teach that we can choose God? Or does the bible teach that God chooses us?

Not very long ago, I was the kind of person that despised the doctrine of unconditional election. In fact, I despised reformed doctrine (I only knew it as Calvinism back then.) I had this crazy illustration in my mind, painted by equally prideful Christians, that Calvinists were tyrants who didn’t believe in preaching the gospel because of these “unscriptural”  doctrines and creeds. What I didn’t know was that the picture that is often portrayed of reformed theology is that of hyper-Calvinists who sway and overcompensate largely in the opposite direction of the Armenian’s movement. Both are equally heretical.

Because I didn’t understand election, I used the common argument in evangelical churches today. Going beyond what the scriptures teach, I reasoned in my own mind that God predestined us to salvation because he foreknew that we would make that choice. Today, this seems to me a very silly and futile argument.

There is one main problem I have with this argument, and it’s a huge problem. The only verse used to support this argument is Romans 8:29

29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

According to the argument God only foresees what is ultimately our work, not his work. In other words, the point of this interpretation is that God does not cause our faith, he only foresees the faith which we cause. But the problem with this interpretation is that it is not consistent with the rest of scripture.

It assumes that the meaning of “foreknowing” is not the meaning it has in many Old and New Testament texts that would give a more coherent meaning to this passage. Listen to these uses of “know” and ask yourself what each means. In Genesis 18:19 God says of Abraham, “I have known him, so that he may command his children and his household after him to keep the way of the Lord.” Virtually all the English versions translate this, “I have chosen him.” In Amos 3:2 God says to the people of Israel, “You only have I known among all the families of the earth.” He knew about all the families, but only chose Israel. In Matthew 7:23 Jesus said to the hypocrites at the judgment day, “I never knew you; depart from me, you who practice lawlessness.” Psalm 1:6 says, “The Lord knows the way of the righteous, But the way of the wicked will perish.” He knows about the way of the wicked too. But he knows the way of the righteous in the sense of approving and recognizing and loving. In Hosea 13:5 God says to Israel, “I knew you in the wilderness, In the land of drought,” meaning he took note of your plight and cared for you. And Genesis 4:1 says, “Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain.” That is, he made her his, and knew her intimately and loved her.

Because of all those texts I think John Stott and John Murray are exactly right when both of them say, “”Know’ . . . is used in a sense practically synonymous with “love’ . . . “Whom he foreknow’ . . . is therefore virtually equivalent to “whom he foreloved.’” Foreknowledge, is “sovereign , distinguishing love” (John Stott, quoting Murray, Romans, p. 249). It’s virtually the same as set your affection on and choose for your own.

John Piper, Desiring God

Furthermore, it is not consistent with the teaching of salvation in the whole of scripture. The bible consistently teaches that God is the author of our faith, and that we do not choose anything. Those who come to Christ become His children by His will, not by theirs. “They were not God’s children by nature or because of any human desires. God himself was the one who made them his children”

who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.     John 1:13

God, before the foundation of the world, chose to make certain individuals the objects of His unmerited favor or special grace.

“Unless the Lord had shortened those days, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom He chose, He shortened the days.      Mark 13:20

Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,      Ephesians 1:4-5

All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.   Revelation 13:8

Individuals from every tribe, tongue and nation were chosen by God for adoption, not because of anything they would do but because of His sovereign will.

For though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad , so that God’s purpose in election would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, it was said to her, “THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER.” Just as it is written, “JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED.”           Romans 9:11-13

So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.                    Romans 9:16

And Isaiah is very bold and says, “I WAS FOUND BY THOSE WHO DID NOT SEEK ME, I BECAME MANIFEST TO THOSE WHO DID NOT ASK FOR ME.”     Romans 10:20

who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works , but according to His own purpose, grace which was granted us and in Christ Jesus from all eternity,    2 Timothy 1:9

God could have chosen to save all men (He certainly has the power and authority to do so), and He could have chosen to save no one (He is under no obligation to save anyone). He instead chose to save some and leave others to the consequences of their sin.

And He said, “I Myself will make all My goodness pass before you, and will proclaim the name of the LORD before you; and I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show compassion on whom I will show compassion.”    Exodus 33:19

What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! For He says to Moses, “I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION.” So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH.” So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires. You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?” On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.                 Romans 9:14-24

When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed .       Acts 13:48

and, “A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE”; for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also appointed.            1 Peter 2:8

The theme of God’s election to salvation is constant throughout the old and new testament, not based on our own will or “choice”, but of God’s will and choice. Romans 8:28 teaches a far more important message, that all who are predestined will be saved.

And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.      John 6:39

And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.     Romans 8:30

All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.    John 6:37

For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him.   John 17:2

They are Christ’s sheep (John 10:1-30) who hear His voice and for whom He died (John 10:15) in order to give them eternal life and make them secure forever in the hand of God (John 10:26-30).

but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”             John 10:26-30

Jesus’ words “it is finished” (John 19:30) are a sweet sound of the finished plan of salvation on the cross. Christ’s death on the cross was not to make salvation possible. Christ died on the cross to save. His work is finished in the salvation of God’s people, in those he chose from the foundations of the world.

Read my post:  What does John 3:16 mean?

also quoted, gotquestions.org Unconditional election, is it biblical?

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Help Understanding Election

Posted by On July - 7 - 2009ADD COMMENTS

Need help understanding election? Paul washer answers one man searching for answers in the video below.

Colossians 2:13

“When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,”

(Us all: speaking to believers)

Ephesians 2:1-10

“1As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature[a] and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. 4But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.”

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Lordship Salvation in a Nutshell

Posted by On January - 3 - 20095 COMMENTS

Lordship Salvation is misrepresented or misunderstood by many. It is often seen as a way to determine the salvation of others. This article from Grace to You should clear a few things up. You can read the rest of the article HERE.

The gospel that Jesus proclaimed was a call
to discipleship, a call to follow him in submissive
obedience, not just a plea to make a
decision or pray a prayer. Jesus’ message liberated
people from the bondage of their sin while it
confronted and condemned hypocrisy. It was an
offer of eternal life and forgiveness for repentant
sinners, but at the same time it was a
rebuke to outwardly religious people whose
lives were devoid of true righteousness. It put
sinners on notice that they must turn from sin
and embrace God’s righteousness.
Our Lord’s words about eternal life were invariably
accompanied by warnings to those who
might be tempted to take salvation lightly. He
taught that the cost of following him is high,
that the way is narrow and few find it. He said
many who call him Lord will be forbidden from
entering the kingdom of heaven (cf. Matt.
7:13-23).
Present-day evangelicalism, by and large,
ignores these warnings. The prevailing view of
what constitutes saving faith continues to grow
broader and more shallow, while the portrayal
of Christ in preaching and witnessing becomes
fuzzy. Anyone who claims to be a Christian can
find evangelicals willing to accept a profession
of faith, whether or not the person’s behavior
shows any evidence of commitment to Christ.
In this way, faith has become merely an
intellectual exercise. Instead of calling men
and women to surrender to Christ, modern
Lordship Salvation

The Distinctives series articulates key bibilical and
theological convictions of Grace Community Church.
evangelism asks them only to accept some basic
facts about Him.
This shallow understanding of salvation and the
gospel, known as “easy-believism,” stands in
stark contrast to what the Bible teaches. To put
it simply, the gospel call to faith presupposes
that sinners must repent of their sin and yield to
Christ’s authority. This, in a nutshell, is what is
commonly referred to as lordship salvation.

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Reformation Promo

Posted by On December - 31 - 2008ADD COMMENTS

http://www.veoh.com/videos/v16043719KttexTbJ

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What does it mean for God to Foreknow?

Posted by On December - 29 - 2008ADD COMMENTS

a quote from QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS ON ELECTION

In Romans 8:29, the text reads “For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son…” Does this not therefore suggest that because foreknowledge comes before predestination in the text, then predestination is simply based on God’s foreknowledge: because God foreknows or sees in advance (with full and complete knowledge) what a person will do, and who it is that will respond in faith to the Gospel, He simply predestinates those whom He knows will believe?


Thanks for your question. Certainly this is how I understood this passage for many years and it is the way that many deal with the issue of predestination in our day. Previously, I also pointed to 1 Peter 1:1-2  which talks of those who are “chosen, according to the foreknowledge of God the Father…” and assumed that this verse would add weight to my argument that election and predestination is based on God knowing ahead of time what we will do.

At first glance, it certainly seems to be a legitimate interpretation, because as you pointed out, the word foreknew comes before predestination in the text of Romans 8:29. However, the fact that foreknowledge comes before predestination should in no way surprize us. That’s because God would need to foreknow a person He is going to predestinate to something. God does not predestinate unknown persons, but specific individuals whom He knows. So this not really an argument for either side in this debate. In both systems, foreknowing would need to come before predestination.

The real question then is “what exactly does it mean for God to foreknow somebody?”

Actually there are a number of problems with the interpretation you outline in your question, not the least of which is that scripture reveals very clearly, that left to himself, man will always choose against Christ, because of his hostile disposition to God. Man is dead spiritually, and needs his heart of stone to be removed and a heart of flesh put in before he has any interest in seeking the God of the Bible (Rom. 3:11; Rom. 8:7, 8; 1 Cor. 2:14). Outside of Christ, man is the enemy of God.

The interpretation also falls down because the word “foreknew” does not merely mean to know future actions beforehand. It has a much more precise meaning. The word “foreknew” (Greek: proginosko) in Romans 8:29 is a verb rather than a noun. It is an action word, and as the text informs us, it is something done by God.

What exactly does God do then? The text says that “those whom God foreknew…”

To gain a correct biblical definition of this word foreknew, rather than assume its meaning, (which is what many do) we need to do some homework and study. In this case it means we need to go to passages of scripture that have God as the subject of the verbal form (as here in this passage). This is because passages that have humans as the subject would differ substantially in their meaning from the ones where God is the subject, because, I am sure we will all agree, we as creatures “know” things on a very different basis to the way God does.

When we do this we find the verb proginosko is used three times in the New Testament with God as the subject – here in Romans 8:29, then also in Romans 11:2, and lastly in 1 Peter 1:20. This proves to be significant when we ask the question “what, or who is foreknown by God?”

In Romans 8:29, the direct object of the verb is a pronoun that refers back to the called of the previous verse (v. 28). In Romans 11:2 the object the verb is refering to is “His people,” and in 1 Peter 1:20, the object is Jesus Christ Himself.

Each reference then portrays God as foreknowing persons rather than actions. 1 Peter 1:20  says, “For He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you.” When God foreknew Christ, did that mean that God simply knew that Jesus would make correct decisions or have faith in His Father? Hardly! It speaks of the Father’s personal intimacy and affection for His beloved Son.

To quote Dr. James White in this regard, “to say that God foreknows acts, faith, behavior, choices, etc, is to assume something about the term that is not witnessed in the biblical text. God foreknows persons not things.”

How does this relate to what we find in the Old Testament? Well there, we have a similar meaning to the word meaning of “forknew” in the New Testament. This is the Hebrew word “yada.” It refers in a number of instances to God’s “knowing” of individuals. For instance in Jeremiah 1:5, God said to Jeremiah, “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

Dr. White comments, “Here God’s knowledge of Jeremiah is clearly personal. It is paralleled with the term “consecrated” and “appointed,” pointing us toward the element of “choice.” This knowledge of Jeremiah is not limited to time. In some manner, God “knew” Jeremiah before Jeremiah came into existence.”

We see this same concept in God’s “knowing” of Moses. Exodus 33:17 – “The LORD said to Moses, “I will also do this thing of which you have spoken; for you have found favor in My sight and I have known you by name.” Again we see the personal nature of God’s knowing of an individual. This refers to a personal intimacy and affection God had for Moses in that he had found favor in the eyes of the Lord. God had chosen Moses to be a recipient of His tender mercy.

I’ll quote just one more passage where we see this word yada used to refer to God possessing a personal intimacy and affection. Amos 3:2 in speaking of Israel says, “You only have I chosen among all the families of the earth; Therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.”

The NASB actually translates yada as “chosen,” here, and there is a very strong basis by way of context for this word to be translated in this way. Literally it says, “You (speaking of Israel) only have I known…” It should be obvious to us that God didn’t merely know about Israel, and possessed no such knowledge of other nations, nor that merely God knew the future actions of Israel, and didn’t know the future actions of the other nations. This “knowing” of Israel is deeply personal and intimate and speaks of God’s grace in choosing them to be His people for His Sovereign purposes alone. The word yada is used also in Genesis 4:1 when it says that Adam “knew” his wife Eve. The result of this “knowing” was a child, lets remember – revealing a deep personal relationship.

All this is important because it presents a consistent pattern: understanding how the verb is used in the New testament, along with these insights from the Old, provides a very strong basis for understanding what foreknew actually means.

Dr. White states, “When Paul says, “those whom He foreknew”  Paul is speaking about an action on God’s part that is just as solitary, just as God-centered, and just as personal as every other action in the string: God foreknows (chooses to enter into relationship with); God predestines; God calls; God justifies; God glorifies. From first to last it is God who is active, God who accomplishes all these things.”

Foreknew therefore does not merely suggest “a passive gathering of infallible knowledge of the future actions of free creatures” but rather reveals that from start to finish, salvation is a Divine accomplishment, for it is God and God alone who saves, to the praise of His glory alone.

To quote Dr. James Montgomery Boice in his comments on Romans 8:29, “those whom God foreknew…”, “the verse does not say that God foreknew what certain of his creatures would do. It is not talking about human actions at all. On the contrary, it is speaking entirely of God and of what God does. Each of these five terms is like that: God foreknew, God predestined, God called, God justified, God glorified. Besides, the object of the divine foreknowledge is not the actions of certain people but the people themselves. In this sense it can only mean that God has fixed a special attention upon them or loved them savingly.”

I believe this then is the scriptural answer to your question, but before we move on, lets also look at this from a logical perspective. Many believe in foreknowledge as you described in your question, but this position does not answer the challenge of what God knew from eternity.

What do I mean? Well, as John Hendryx has stated, “if God knew someone would choose hell even before He created them, then this was a fixed certainty (even before their creation), so why did God go ahead and create them?  It was obviously, in their view, still within His Providence that these people be lost… or if God already foreknew who would be saved then how can they continue to argue that He is trying to save every man?  Certainly God already knows who the persons will be, so why should He send the Holy Spirit to those He knows will reject him.”  Ultimately, when this view is subjected to scrutiny, it logically undermines the very position it is seeking to assert.

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